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New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes

Posted by Vincente 
New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 27, 2009 11:45PM
I am having a love/hate relationship with this distro. After the last "upgrade" (which I had no control over, thanks to "fine tune"wink I have lost sound? I have the new Zotac ION-A motherboard that has all the newest, latest nVidia video & audio features supposedly E17 Compiz likes, but I seriously question if Than is staying up to date with technology.

I have a verified good ISO Download on DVD and here is the real mystery. When I run it as live CD, everything works, including sound. When I try to install it, lose sound and many compiz features, almost like a censored/reduced version (purposefully crippled) to discourage install over favoring using ONLY the live CD version. I know this sounds nuts, but what other explanation is there?

I am also aware the powers that be wish to charge for install (and I am more than happy to pay, if I can get something that works) so being naturally cynical, it seems the install version has been handicapped to force users into staying within the confines of the live CD. Bad, bad marketing decision if so. I am trying to make the transition to Linux, but all this frustration over something as basic as sound is making the task too much, I do not want to, nor intend to become a tech/nerd just to take advantage of linux.

I have submitted "bug" reports.....no response, have emailed Than direct, no response (know the guy has got to be busy) but if you read over this entire forum, you will notice most cries for help have, at best only one reply and usually that reply is useless. I question the real support value of the forum.

This "fine tune" monster is just that, a real disaster. It can screw up a perfectly installed system with its concept of change for the sake of change. What is they say about linux, if it works, keep changing it until it no longer works?

Can anyone tell me, in simple, easy to follow directions how to disable "fine tune"? I don't want it, don't need it, not trying to get hi-tech function out of E17-compiz, just like the eye candy and want to be able to access email, browse (have switched to Opera 10 to escape the sorry IceWeasel, boy did they ever name that right) and being able to watch movies and listen to music. That is not asking too much and I had E17-compiz doing all that along with the eye candy stuff UNTIL "fine tune" destroyed the whole shooting match in this latest (no choice given) upgrade. If I ever get this back to the way it was, I will remove or block from starting "fine tune" and could care less if I ever get updated from there.

Look how M$ screws up every OS with their patches, updates, service packs, etc. I am trying to come to linux to escape that madness.
Thanks for any help someone with empathy towards this point of view might provide, I know command line gurus will not appreciate/understand my intended use of linux.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 28, 2009 06:50AM
Vincente, Sorry to hear about your problems. You know Elive - Compiz is a unstable release? I had many problems with elive - compiz to, so i have been using unstable elive 1.9.44 with no real problems. As far as pay goes,
[forum.elivecd.org] Have you tried the IRC channel on your desktop for help?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 11:04AM by Mardon.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 28, 2009 02:38PM
Mardon, thanks for bothering to respond---I see with your 47 posts, you are a patient follower of this forum (patience, something I am losing with e17-compiz).

I am not looking for sympathy, just real world, meaningful answers to problems that SHOULD NOT exist---like no sound in the year 2009, unbelievable. A "fine tune" interference, much like the M$ service packs, that only worsen an already compromised install.

Certainly I am aware e17-compiz is unstable and years ago, I tried regular elive (it's as buggy as well, but "unrealistics" choose to pretend otherwise.... not to see its deficiencies)---else why almost 10 years of not being able to come up with a meaningful release? This is not rocket science, take a look at how well ubuntu is doing.

And, this is not about paying to help the guy out, I can appreciate he is a "one man show". There are desirable features in e17-compiz that do not show up in regular elive (probably they are there, but I am not "computer techie" enough to find/figure them out)...my venture into Linux is simply to find an alternative to M$,....with an OS that satisfies MY wants, not some developers and certainly not to re-invent the wheel. But let's face it, the whole elive scenario is flawed and after 10 years of the developer's frenzy for "perfection", there comes a time to question.... is it worth it and where is the value. What's the saying?....cut bait and move on?

I can get e17-compiz to work the way I want it to (and, after all, that is the whole idea) simply from the live CD, but of course, every time you shut down your computer, you lose any customization you might have added to the generic live boot data. So, the only alternative is to install it and this is where the s..t hits the fan, the installed version differs from the liveCD boot version. One has to question WHY? In theory the data should be the same, if there is sound on the live CD, it follows there should be sound on the install, does it not. And, of course, there is no sound. This can't be by accident, I believe (being cynical, as I said earlier) it must designed that way, different strokes for different folks, or in this case different allotments of data for liveCD use vs install. Absolute madness.

I am going through my 3rd (and last) re-install and will wait this out some to see if anyone can resolve the audio/sound issue and pesky "fine tune" madness. If not, life's too short, like the terminator says, hasta la vista (or whatever). Ubuntu is coming out with Karnic or the release beyond with e17 as its window mgr (if you can believe the PR) and no doubt they will be able to get it right, so at that point, elive developers can take another 10 years perfecting their system as the real world moves on.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 29, 2009 06:54AM
Vincente, No sympathy intended ( i should have said glad your having problems? ) I can't help you because i have not had those kind of problems. As far as i know this is the first time E-17 with Compiz has been tried, so there is going to be allot of problems, as i said before i had problems with E-17 Compiz so i have been using Elive with E-17 and have very few problems. TRY THE CHAT IRC ON YOUR DEKSTOP and call out Thanatermesis see if he can help? If you want a stable distro with E17 try OpenGEU it is based on Ubuntu.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2009 09:25AM by Mardon.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 30, 2009 06:44AM
I've actually been having serious issues with the all versions after compiz-1.9.40. I'm currently running normal elive 1.9.44 with ecomorph installed on top but again much much less stable than compiz-1.9.40. In fact it hangs a lot and seems to need F1 when opening applications after login and of late required a lot of ctrl+alt+backspace.

So a switch back over to ubuntu and installing e17-compiz manually may be in order soon, at least until Elive 2 is released hopefully it will come with ecomorph mode.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
September 30, 2009 05:21PM
I agree.....I have had it, totally disgusted with something, 10 years in the making,---- that still does NOT work. Mardon had good suggestion, move on, which is what I am doing. I tried his suggestion OpenGEU, but kept getting a "kernal panic"???(whatever the heck that is). So I went to Ultimate Edition and wow, much nicer build on top of standard Ubuntu Jaunty with compiz that actually works, sound....can you believe it, sound works right out of the box. Shame, e17-compiz has a couple of nice features, but cannot deliver sound and makes you suffer the "fine tune" madness.... but I will figure out how to get those few features that are "special" to e17-compiz through Ultimate Edition and be done with it.

I am probably the average user who tries Linux, finds he cannot get it to work like he is conditioned coming from M$ and then has one of two choices, either go back to M$ prison/hell or persevere until you learn enough to "force" it to work. I am willing to try the "persevere" route but not when it leads to a dead end as has been my experience with e17-compiz---and yes, I know it is "unstable"----is that ever a mouthful!

Joined a local Linux group, about 40-50 members, most were in the same boat as I, trying to escape M$ and all having problems getting up to speed with Linux, thus their involvement in the group. Now a few months have past, most have fallen by the wayside, given up trying to make Linux work.....average person, like myself, is plug and play, does NOT want to have to become a computer tech just to get access to a OS and have it work the way he wants rather than the direction the designer is going and believes those interested will have to adapt. This is operating with blinders on, but then, I think so many distro developers really don't care and enjoy the exclusivity of being marginal.

In all fairness to Than, I have the latest gear, nVidia ZotacION board, just released a couple of months ago on one computer and the Intel DG45FC on another computer, cannot make e17-compiz work on either and all through trying. I think technology is moving faster than Than and he is not able to keep up with his compatibility factor in matching advancing technology.

Anyway, an "experience" of "don't confuse me with the facts" and on to more user friendly grounds.
Re: New upgrade causes more problems than it fixes
October 02, 2009 05:33AM
Personally I found OpenGEU 8.10 Luna Serena much more unstable and deprecated allready(still based off on Ubuntu 8.10?).
I heard from Madnessmike1988 from intilinux forum they will jump directly to a Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala based off one,but who knows when?

Procesor Intel Ci3-2100 3.10Ghz,64bit,3MB BOX,
4GB RAM DDR3 1333mhz,
NVIDIA GeForce 210,1GB DDR3,PCI-E,
Linux user:#492560,E17-Ecomorph user.
"This is Linux land!In silent nights you can hear Windows machines rebooting!..."
[www.youtube.com] [stanca-ultimateeditionromania.blogspot.com]#



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2009 09:06AM by stanca.
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